Discuss. Rihanna in 12 Hours.
Rihanna and Katie Grand Photographed by Rafael Pavarotti
Katie Grand, Perfect’s Editor in Chief, called Mel Ottenberg, Interview’s Editor in Chief to discuss their mutual experiences of shooting the dream Rihanna covers.
Mel Ottenberg: Katie.
Katie Grand: Mel.
MO: So, you guys did a Rihanna issue?
KG: Yeah.
MO: Oh, hot.
KG: She’s very hot, I’m even starstruck talking about her. There’s not many people that still do that. When it all came up that she’d like to do this, it was right before your pictures and story dropped for Interview. I did a bit of digging and knew you’d done it and that Nadia [Lee Cohen] had taken the pictures. I knew that they were going to be really major. And then they were. I loved your interview with her. You got the definitive interview, almost to the point that she doesn’t really need to say anything ever again.
MO: The reviews are in. I love that.
KG: You really did that interview at 3am?
MO: I really did. It was in Milan, on the last day of fashion week. She was rehearsing for a show. I drank a Red Bull and was like, right, let’s do this fucking interview. Am I going to get to ask all the questions? And she’s like, oh, don’t worry, don’t be overly intimidated about asking me the right questions. I said, girl, no way, we’ve got to go for it. She was so great and I was so grateful that she was giving me as much as she gave me, because it’s not every day that somebody is down to give real answers in this day and age. Like, who gives real answers anyway anymore?
KG: She gives such realness in front of the camera. The only person I can compare her to is Miuccia [Prada], in her unwavering confidence. OK, we’re all in the room together, now let’s do something inspiring.
MO: Exactly. She’s been that bitch for a really long time. And I still really feel that she is that. I feel like she’s got this special spark. I’m really excited to see what you’ve done with her.
KG: Rafael [Pavarotti] shot it.
MO: Fab.
KG: In my head it was Helena Bonham-Carter for Tatler, 1985. But that reference is probably lost on most people.
MO: It’s not lost on me. Is it a little bit Beetlejuice? Is there black lace involved?
KG: No, it’s not as Goth as that. Jahleel [Weaver] was the stylist and put it all together. I have to say that he did the most fantastic job. It just really gave me Bruce Weber for Tatler, with a touch of Divine eyebrows.
MO: Cool. I love a Divine eyebrow. Actually, Yusef who does her hair was saying that she looks like Taffy Davenport, Divine’s daughter in Female Trouble, with the blonde hair that we did in Interview. It’s only fitting that she’s giving you Divine eyebrows.
KG: Through a Helena Bonham-Carter lens.
MO: Divine with Helena Bonham-Carter? I think that sounds great. Listen, I hope you guys are going on the record to say that I’ve done the one… what did you say again?
KG: The definitive interview.
MO: Well, thank you, Katie Grand.
KG: You kind of have to. It’s in the name of your magazine.
MO: I feel like what I do with interviews is I just do what we want to do and what we think is right. Even the day before, I didn’t know that it would go off as much as it did. That was really fun, because every magazine picked up on it, because of course they did. People are just interested in her, right? Again, she’s that bitch. I’m actually with her right now, in the basement of the Bulgari Hotel, Shanghai.
KG: I’ve got a visual.
MO: I’m staring at her on the live stream. She’s wearing a Ferragamo dress. She looks hot. What can I say? She’s fun.
KG: What was the one question you really, really wanted to ask her?
MO: I’ll leave this for the book. There’s some good shit that ended up on the cutting room floor because it’s crazy. I wasn’t scared to ask her anything but there’s a lot of good stuff that was just too much. Like, we are taking this out. You can’t. We were talking war stories. I wasn’t going to ask when the new music is out because that’s the same thing that fucking everyone would ask her. So, it couldn’t be that.
KG: Are you going to be up all night?
MO: No, I’m done in 45 minutes.
KG: I left the shoot at 9am and had to go straight to another shoot.
MO: [laughs] Was it worth it?
KG: God, yeah. All the time I was there I felt like, I know this feeling, I’ve just not had it for a long time. Something being so great and inspiring and life-changing, not just the people involved but the work being done. That excitement of yes, I want to stay up all night for this because it’s so good.
MO: With Rihanna, it’s never exactly what you think it’s going to be. But it’s always worth staying up all night for. She’s always going to leave you guessing. I don’t know how that mind works, because hers is such a unique mind. But it’s always going to be worth putting the hours in for.
KG: It’s a bit like being in a club sober. Normally, you think that nothing good is going to happen after 2am. But sometimes it does.
MO: Absolutely. It’s not a situation for everyone [laughing], because not everyone can have that stamina. But it’s always worth the rollercoaster.
KG: We had a DJ [Malik Lindo] there all night for the shoot, did you?
MO: Yes, we had the DJ. Our shoot wasn’t actually all night, now I think about it. It was over by 10pm. Which is insane, and makes no sense, but that is just fact. And yes, there was a DJ there and I was really into it. I want to insist on a major DJ on all my sets. It’s a really good idea. When I was there, I was like, right, I need this eternally forever now.
KG: We went outside to watch the sun come out, just to mark that, you know, that was yesterday and now we’re in tomorrow. I came back and there was some heavy music playing and I was like, please can we just listen to Fleetwood Mac? Just for a minute. We had Dreams on and that was a moment.
MO: I love that for her. I love Stevie for Rihanna. That’s twisted. I have never experienced that. What hair did you do?
KG: Mustafa [Yanaz] did the hair and there were three different setups. They were all out of this world. I just did not get this reference, which I loved. Then the the last one was, I want to say kind of Marie Antoinette/Dangerous Liaisons, which is always a favourite.
MO: And what is she wearing on the cover?
KG: No credits. I went into this shoot thinking, this is really not that project.
MO: It was freedom?
KG: Real, 100%, absolute freedom.
MO: Fab. Wait guys, come on, it’s coming out too soon, tell me, what was she wearing? I won’t tell anyone!
KG: No, no, she’s not wearing anything on the cover, that’s what I’m saying.
MO: Got it, freedom, freedom, freedom. Love!
KG: Inside she’s in Comme, Junya, Marc Jacobs, archive Lacroix, Margiela and Dior Couture.
MO: Fab.
KG: Yeah, it’s so nice to have a rack of really amazing clothes. Oh, and she’s in Schiaparelli, with the robot.
MO: Had you ever done her before?
KG: No. I think we’d been asked maybe twice before for proposals. We wrote proposals and it never really went anywhere. So, I went into this one thinking this isn’t going to go anywhere either. Sometimes I think it’s quite good going into things thinking the worst-case scenario is going to happen.
MO: Right? But she wants to do cool pictures and Perfect is cool and that’s the whole story. It’s not like there’s an agenda pushing a thing. I’m sure she did it because she wanted to do something cool and creative with cool, creative people. That’s when you’re getting someone at the best moment. I would say now is the perfect moment for you to be doing her.
KG: When she walks in, she lets everyone do their thing. That is definitely very inspiring for people to work with, because there is nothing safe about her. There was one point where I was shouting ‘give me fish face’ to her.
MO: How was her fish face? Was it good?
KG: Really good. It was really, really quite fishy.
MO: Love that. She turns the room on. I’m still staring at this live stream. She really does make people scream.
KG: I’m not sure she’ll remember me asking her for fish face.
MO: Well, now we have put it down forever. Who did she remind you of, magic wise?
KG: Just Miuccia. It wasn’t easy getting everyone in this room but there was a belief that everyone in the room was there for the right reasons, to do something creative that hadn’t been done before.
MO: She’s always searching for the new, and that’s why I still always think she’s the one, the best. She’s just not afraid of the unknown, of creativity. She’s special. OK, I have to go back in. Did you have any other question for me?
KG: When can we expect your book?
MO: You know someone else was asking me that the other day. I have a really juicy story that I was telling someone and I said, that one is definitely going in the book. I’m not putting it out now. I’m still too in it for the book to come out. It has to kill you on every page. We’re not ready for that quite yet.